How to Calculate Canoe Seat Positions
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After you build a canoe hull, possibly from PaddlingLight’s free canoe plans, and trim it out with thwarts, gunwales and a yoke, you need to add seats. Historically, few canoes had seats built into them — the paddlers either knelt or sat on gear. While that’s still practical, it’s much more comfortable to sit on an actual canoe seat. If the canoe plan didn’t include seat positions, then you need to calculate that position yourself. Luckily, with a little high-school level algebra — and you thought it would never come in handy — calculating a canoe seat position is painless.
Canoe Seat Position Calculations
Part of canoeing and seamanship is trimming your boat to the conditions. Ideally, you want to balance the canoe so that the original design condition is met, which requires you to evenly balance both paddler’s center of gravity over the boat’s center of buoyancy. Imagine the canoe as a seesaw. The seesaw’s pivot point is the canoe’s center of buoyancy. To balance the seesaw, the heavier person usually sits nearer to the center than the lighter. To balance a canoe, you need to do the same. To find the seat position, use Ted Moores’ formula found in Canoecraft: An Illustrated Guide to Fine Woodstrip Construction.
Sternman’s weight x A = Bowman’s weight x B
Where “A” equals the distance between the sternman’s center of gravity and the boat’s center of buoyancy, and “B” equals the distance between the bowman’s center of gravity to the boat’s center of buoyancy. When applying this formula, you can assume that the paddler’s center of gravity equals the front of his seat.
Before you decide seat position consider the following:
- Seats placed near the ends make narrower paddling stations and increase turning leverage.
- Seats placed near the ends reduce stability unless loaded.
- Seats placed near the ends reduce room for the legs of the bowman and width for the sternman.
- Seats placed closer to center provides more lift in the ends.
You need to balance the seat according to your needs. For example, if you’re going to use the canoe for tripping, then move the seats out towards the ends, because the heavier load increases stability and you need the extra leverage to help turn a fully loaded canoe. If it’s a cabin cruiser, then move the seats closer together for more comfort and great stability. If the canoe is extra wide, move the seat towards the ends where it’s narrower, so it’s easier to reach the water with your paddle. If the canoe has skinny ends, move the seats more towards the center.
As an example, let’s say we want to make the Têtes de Boule Two-Fathom Canoe into a cabin canoe with roomy, but not too room paddling stations and plenty of leg room in the front. We first place the bow seat 3 1/2 feet from the bow and 3 feet 10 inches from the canoe’s center of buoyancy. Our bowman weighs 140 lbs., and our sternman weighs 180 lbs.
180 lbs. x A = 140 lbs. x 3.8334 feet
simplifies
A = (140 x 3.8334) / 180
solves
A = 2.982 feet
The distance between the canoe’s center of buoyancy and the sternman’s center of gravity is about 3 feet. That makes his paddling station 2 feet 2 inches wide and the bowman’s is 1 foot 10 inches.
Height of the Canoe Seat
The lower the canoe seats the more stable the canoe becomes. Higher canoe seats give more control and make the boat more responsive. Canoe seats mounted somewhere in the middle give a good balance between stability and responsiveness, because you can kneel when you need extra stability and sit for all other times. When mounting seats for a balanced approach, mount them high enough to get your feet in and out easily. Most paddlers will find about 9 or 10 inches high enough. To make the kneeling position more comfortable, angle the seat slightly forward by raising the seat’s rear 1 inch higher than the seat’s front. Consider knee pads if you plan on kneeling often.
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14 Comments
Doreen Murgatroyd
Great post. First time I’ve ever seen calculations on where to put the seats. ‘Dugg’ and ‘Tweeted’ your article.
Bryan Hansel
Thanks!
Dan Smith
is that the center of buoyancy when both people are in the boat or when the boat is empty? And does this mean that the person in the back should be closer to the middle then the person in the bow?? im confused..
Bryan Hansel
The placement of the seats depends on the person’s weight. The center of buoyancy is for an unloaded canoe in the design condition. You’re placing the seats to keep the canoe in the design condition. Ideally, with properly placed seats that account for the different weights of the paddlers, the loaded center of buoyancy will equal the unloaded center of buoyancy.
Rev. Jay Blackburn
Hi Bryan,
Bryan just building the little boat you designed from the Chum.
It looks great, just reading the notes about seats – I am confused – on a symetrical canoe is the centre of bouyancy the mid point on length and width ?
Therefore we are intending the boat to trim exactly the same loaded, by moving ghe shifting ballast ?
Thank you
Jay across the pond !
Bryan Hansel
For a symmetrical canoe, the center of buoyancy would be the center of the canoe. For example, if the canoe is 14 feet long, the center of buoyancy would be at 7 feet. If you are building it for solo, then you can put the seat about 5 inches back from the center. For tandem, you should do the calculations above.
steve
I see this math for a tandem setup, but what about a solo build. I’m building a solo Laughing Loon (14.5′). Where to position the center line of the only seat – aft of center of course, but how far aft? I will day trip a lazy river and I will BWCA for a week too. What if you then add a thwart for carry purposes? If the thwart is too close to the seat, then my legs are either cramped or hanging over the thwart – both of those suck when on a long BWCA trip. Without a thwart, how do you carry it on your shoulders (I use shoulder pads mounted on the thwart on my 17.6 tandem). Some say you don’t need a seat & a thwart, but I like a low center of gravity so I use seat hangers which allow some flex, so the sides would then also flex without a thwart. This is a critical decision, once drilled any change would mean adding more holes to the gunnels – that would really suck given all the time I’ve invested to make a near perfect stapeless woodstrip canoe build.
Bryan Hansel
If you have plans from Laughing Loon, you should reach out them to get specifics on where to mount the seat.
Generally, you want mount your solo canoe seat about 5 inches back from center. This varies based on where the paddler’s center of gravity and the boat’s center of buoyancy are, but it’s a good rule of thumb. For solo canoes, you’d use a removable yoke instead of installing a permanent yoke. I use Northstar’s Clamp-on Solo Yoke. This allows you to put the yoke in the center of the canoe and still have a good seat placement. You could try making your own as well. Here’s one that I used to use on my older solo canoes: Solo Canoe Yoke Plans for Portaging.
If you are worried about flex, then either install a thwart forward of the cockpit, like shown on the Laughing Loon website, or put one about 5 or 6 inches behind the seat depending on how you sit in the seat. You don’t want your back to hit the thwart behind the seat.
Greg
Bryan:
For a solo seat, is that 5″ behind canoe center to the center of the seat, or to the front of the seat?
Bryan Hansel
The 5 inch thing is a rule of thumb. It is to the front of the seat.
Steve
Tku, The clamp on yoke is a great idea. For the seat when you say 5″ back from center, is that measuring off leading edge, center of seat or ??
The Laughing Loon is a really sweet solo design & with all the strips on now, looks really great, but the plans don’t address a solo seat, google is no help and Bob Mack (laughing loon creator) is only somewhat helpful – I did email him, but often I get no reply. We’ll see.
Bob has a few ideas he won’t waver on either, such using staples – he’s absolute on them. I did mine without – looks so much better. I also used an inner & an outer stem which also is not Bob’s suggested way. But I live in a rocky area & I run over them frequently at landing sites and occasionally hit some lite whitewater.
I found a guy on YouTube – “Adam – A Guy Who Does Stuff”, After the book Canoecraft, Adam is my video bible on how to, but his is a tandem. Without Adam I’m not sure I would have tackled this project. He explained things that I couldn’t figure out from books such as stems & it’s his idea on stapeless that allowed me to build without zits all over my boat.
Bryan Hansel
One thing to remember is 5″ is a rule of thumb. That generally aligns your center of gravity with the boat’s center of buoyancy. It isn’t always the case, but it usually gets you close enough. It’s measured off the front of the seat. So, you’d find center, measure 5 inches back and then install the seat so that there was a 5-inch gap between the center of the boat and where the seat starts.
Your project sounds nice. If you want it featured in a post on this website, send me some photos after you complete it and do a short write up of at least 300 words. Good luck with the rest of your build!
Steve
Tku
Steve
Bryan, Thank you for all the advice. I am fully stripped, ready to glass the bottom after some filling & sanding, hopefully ready by Columbus weekend.