Life Vest Knives: the Great Debate

Knives are basic outdoor tools that every outdoors person should know how to safely use. You should probably have one with you. They are handy and helpful. While paddling and when working with tow ropes, painters or otherwise, you should have a paddling knife handy. The knife is the fall back if something fails in your rope handling skills, and you end up with an entanglement issue that you need to cut someone out of. Rope handling skills should be your priority, and you should learn them from a qualified instructor. The more rope handing skills that you have the less of a chance of needing a knife. Also, if you do any fishing having a knife is just handy.

I’ve seen a quasi-debate about how you should carry that paddling knife. The debate is should you carry a fixed blade sheathed knife on your life vest or a folding knife that you can access if needed. Usually the folder is kept in a vest pocket, but I’ve seen newer vests have a designated outside pocket for folders, such as the Stohlquist Descent that I bought this year. I personally think that it is a personal choice as to what knife to carry and where you should carry it.

If you’ve seen pictures of me on the water, it’s no secret that I typically have a blunt-nosed, fixed blade and sheathed knife on a lash tab on my vest. I have both a NRS Pilot Knife and a Gerber River Shorty. Both are excellent knives, but the Gerber tends to come out of the sheath if you don’t add a small bungee cord to it to prevent it from doing so. I like having a blunt point, because in a pinch it can work as a screwdriver. I don’t know how many Current Design rudders I had to repair on the water. Having the blunt tip was handy, but I probably should have carried a screwdriver instead. I’m not opposed to carrying a folder, but I do like fixed blades for the easy access and easy cleaning. Because I often use my paddling knife for other camp chores, I want to be able to easily clean it. I don’t like folding knives when working with food. They can get nasty.

While a little off topic, I’ve seen lots of hipster wooden handled folders being used for food. When you wash a wooden handle folder, the wood swells and it becomes hard (or dangerous) to open and close. Don’t bring wooded handled folders into the woods with you. They might be great front country knives for occasional use, but constant food cutting and cleaning just makes them a bad choice in the backcountry.

Anyway, I got sidetracked. Just like you should be trained in ropes and rope handling skills if working with ropes, you should also be trained in knife handling skills. If you were never taught knife safety when you were a kid, you should check out the American Knife and Tool Institute’s My First Knife for some good tips and go get training.

The basics of AKTI are that you should show SASS when handling your knife:

• Stop – make sure no one else is within arm’s reach
• Away – always cut away from your finger or other body parts
• Sharp – a sharp, clean knife is a safe knife
• Store – knives closed, in a sheath or knife block

I lucked out because my dad was active in the outdoors with hunting and fishing. He sharpened his knives and taught me knife safety and hunting and fishing. I was also privileged enough to get lessons in hunting and gun safety and shot trap in my gym classes. Not all kids get this type of training. Very few paddlers get any rope handling safety training. Both rope handling and knife handling should be considered mandatory. Then you should practice while in the water using both.

Why do I bring this up?

A while back, I wrote about having a knife available when working with ropes. This is a reply that I got from a friend:

Yet folks who think they need knives on the outside of their vest seldom if ever benefit. More likely that encourages little Johnny to need a knife he can’t handle, or results in river trash. Heard one guy rushed to use his knife and without thinking cut someone’s femoral artery. I’ve had one urgent need to cut a rope, and removed a folder from a pocket and cut it. Knives on the outside are an unfortunate macho tradition

I love the Audacity of Winning Bold Kayaking Arguments on the Internet, so I replied:

A sheathed fixed blade knife on the outside of a life vest is a standard safety tool and recognized as such by many experienced paddlers, guides and instructors, including myself. Just because you were able to access your knife in your one specific situation doesn’t mean that there aren’t situations where you wouldn’t have been better served with a knife on your vest. Paddlers should train with it and understand the functions and limitation and dangers. I’m not sure why anyone would give a knife to “little Johnny” without training “little Johnny” in its use just like a person wouldn’t give “little Johnny” a folding knife that he wasn’t trained with nor could he handle, but I suppose you can think that in your imagination. In my life experienced parents are good at teaching their children about handling knives.

I sure hope that discussion goes sideways, because I’m looking forward to lampooning it on PaddlingLight.

I got this reply:

It is indeed traditional safety tool. Broomstick footpegs, cowtails, machines, nonlocking carabiner, sprayskirts with embedded foam for lifejackets,
etc, were all traditional tools too at one time. There was a discussion in an old timers group a while back,, mostly ww paddlers from the Atlantic where no one identified actual benefit from having a sheath knife that accessible. But there were folks who mentioned how many knives had lost, how good they were for cheese, sausage and peanut butter… I’ll stick to my folder and quick release tows.

And, of course, I replied again:

You would/should have a quick release tow anyway. That’s standard, and every tow should have some variety of quick release. This is true with short tows as well.

The knife, which you would practice with, is in case of entanglement and not to release a tow. It serves a different function than a tow. The reason you’d want it with a tow is because the danger of entrapment if something goes sideways.

Until you need the knife to cut yourself or another person out of an entanglement during a dire, fast-moving situation, you won’t need it. It’s like a bike helmet; you hope you never need it but you’ll be glad it was there when needed. Personally, I would rather not have to fumble in my pockets trying to find a folding knife and then try to open it. I’ve heard to skirts getting stuck in strainers, straps getting tangled, snags on ropes and other issues. I’ve also heard stories from people who ditched their knife on their vest and regretted it when they got into an entanglement situation. You referenced an internet forum. There are many stories on internet forums mentioning how someone used their knife and said having it on their life vest saved their lives.

You mentioned lost knives. If they are losing their knifes, they were likely wearing a Gerber Shorty and failed to add the bungee strap to keep the knife sheathed. A bungee ball or deally-bob is the best because it’s secure and easy to release if you can’t pull the knife. I’ve never lost one with a bungee and I’ve never lost a NRS Pilot.

Paddling gear is personal. You may do something different than I. You may have your justifications, but calling someone else’s choice of gear dogmatic machismo isn’t helpful for anyone and stinks of the rudder vs. skeg debate or the Greenland paddle vs. Euro paddle debate.

And then got an email:

i’ve long thought so called safety knives caused the typical paddler more problems than solutions. 

there are many issues related to towing, why add a knife focus? the issue is you need a quick release when working with ropes, and you need a lot of other common sense rope sense like not wrapping a rope around your hand, not tying it around your neck, knot tying ability, carabiner style and connection, and on and on…

most river knives wind up in the river where they can cut someone or cutting their owner i believe. folks gotta have a knife because its cool and they might need it, kind of like the folks who think they ought not wear their lifejacket because it could interfere with their ability to come out of a hydraulic. it’s a risk management issue but unfortunately the knife issue is a retail boon and appeals to the macho. less appealing is to describe general rope safety issues.

i decided to be proactive 20 years ago when i was mostly dealing with scouts and decided i didn’t need a 10 year old asking his folks for a knife because he’d seen me with one. same goes for his dad who comes to leader training to learn strokes and decides to buy the same gear he saw i had.

nowadays the typical paddler gets his instruction at the cash register or the internet. they’re not going to read a book or take a class, they’d rather watch a 2 minute video or ask a question to be answered on facebook by any ‘expert’ with a keyboard.

50 years ago we had more focus on safety it seemed to me, partly because the sport was immature. now anybody paddles, but i believe the skill and knowledge level of the average paddler is now lower and getting lower every season. worse yet, to paraphrase the awa, most paddlers do not have a frank understanding of their knowledge and abilities.

Me:

Your premise is that knives are important. You’ve actually used one in an entanglement situation, but you think that having one is macho. Is that right? Is that your premise?

I don’t think the majority of knives end up on the bottom of the river. There are some for sure but not the majority. Having worked paddlesports retail, I can tell you that knives are not a retail boon. We sold very few of them while selling 1000s of life vests. You seldom see knives on vests outside guiding and the moving water environment. I can’t remember the last time I saw a knife on a paddler in the BWCAW.

I’m glad that you made a personal decision about not having a knife because you wouldn’t want a 10-year-old to ask their parents for one. If a 10-year-old wants to handle a knife, it’s easy to have a teaching moment. It’s also easy to say no. I’ve never personally seen a student on mine back when I taught sea kayaking buy a knife. They could have and if they were going to tow, I would recommend it and I would recommend that they practice with it. 

The typical paddler isn’t going to buy a life vest knife. It just doesn’t happen that often.

Personally, I don’t see much of a difference in any of the issues you describe between having a knife in a pocket vs a knife on a vest. All the issues are 100% the same. 

Him:

No.

I always have a knife. Even in a tux. Certainly when paddling.

Making it so visible is what is unnecessary.  You don’t need it clipped to the outside of your life jacket to do a quick draw. 

Me:

So you are only against having it on the outside of the vest. Seems like much ado about nothing. 

Him:

until you have someone step in a knife that someone else dropped in the river and get to do an evac.

Me:

It doesn’t happen. If you use a bungee to hold the Gerber Shorter in place, it doesn’t come out. It doesn’t come out on the river nor during practice. The NRS Pilot also solves the problem. I never lost a knife in 10 years of guiding and teaching five to six days a week. 

So if that’s your objection, then problem solved. 

Him:

When you get past 50 let me know. And if anyone else you’ve paddled with has.

Me (note that I’m over 50, and I’ve had a client’s foot get cut from a sharp rock while guiding, She took her shoes off while swimming under a waterfall despite instructions not to do so):

I don’t get why you argue this point. The bungee is effective. Every guide and instructor that I know who using a bungee didn’t lose their knife. 

If that’s your only objection, then it is solved.

If your objection is that people could cut the feet and need an evac, then you better remove all the sharp rocks from rivers. 

Him:

And I don’t get why you think everyone needs a quick draw knife, and apparently no rope knot or knife safety training. Of course I also don’t get why people get their education and training from the cash register and internet.

Despite your belief, it does happen and it’s not nothing. It shouldn’t but it does… like lots of things.

Me:

Every single thing I’ve wrote about this says that people should get rope and safely training. Are you just ignoring it?

Heck, people get injured from pocket knives. Would you ban those? 

Seriously, in all honesty you just don’t like the look of a knife on a vest. That’s fine. You do you, but to suggest the ONLY reason people wear a knife on their vest is cause they are macho seems like misplaced anger. 

The reason that I post this conversation is that it does bring up some good points that often get overlooked:

• Learn rope skills
• Learn knife skills
• Practice both on the water
• Practice helps prevents panic in emergencies
• If you carry a knife make sure it is secure in its sheath
• Everyone has different opinions
• There can be multiple right choices

All that said, I’m curious if you have any recommendations for folding knives that are light, easy to clean and small enough to fit inside a life vest pocket. Maybe the NRS Green Kayak Rescue Knife? Also, do you think carrying a knife on the outside of your vest is just a vestige of machoism?

Still don’t like a knife? Check out the Eezycut Trilobite Knife First Look that I wrote.